No. I personally do not understand why it is ever necessary to use this kind of bit, since it basically just uses pain to get your point across. I have very light hands, and I still have no interest in ever using this bit. If I have a horse that needs the option of a stronger bit sometimes, I'd rather ride in something like a pelham.

 

I voted sometimes because, even though I have never used one, I would not be opposed to using one for a ride or two on a truly horrible horse that really needed an attention getter. My biggest problem with twisted bits is not that they're used, it's how and by whom. Not just everyone has the ability, knowledge, or desire to use them properly and that's one of the reasons why they get such a bad reputation.

 

I voted no. I don't see a need in one, frankly.

 

Agreed, if a Horse "needs one", then retraining of the Horse or the Owner may be needed....:lol::lol:


.

 

Like Smrobs, I think it has a time and place. But not by an everyday non trainer rider, and not more than a couple of tune up rides. I pity a horses mouth that has to carry such a bit every ride, it really speaks for the inability of the rider and trainer if they feel it is needed for more than a tune up ride or two.

 

I agree that it has a time and place...However I met a horse that absolutely LOVES her twisted wire snaffle! The twists are pretty thick, actually. She was ridden in plain snaffles and she weirdly didn't like them nearly as much.

 

No I see no point in them.IMO If the horse needs a twisted wire in its mouth for control then there is something seriously wrong with its scooling!

Go back to basics, mouth the horse properly (key bits are very good for developing soft mouths) and you have no need for harsh bits like that!

 

I've used them on horses. When adjusted properly and used by a person with light hands who knows what they are doing, I don't see a problem with using a bit like that. On the other hand, I wouldn't put this type of bit into just any horses mouth, nor would I put the reins of that bit into just anybodys hands. They are harsh-er bits, and can become even more harsh in the worng hands.

 

I have used this bit temporarily if I need to get the horse's attention in a few schoolings. I switched back to a "smooth" bit, but they are great tools when used correctly IMO.

It also depends on the twist and the "sharpness" of the twist, they can be very differently. The one I use gets attention, but I don't think it works off of pain.

 

It also depends on the twist and the "sharpness" of the twist, they can be very differently.

I agree with this.

The only type of twisted wire mouthpiece I will ever use: (and I think this is the only "acceptable" type of twisted bit.)

The mouthpiece should be thick and only have 3-5 twists on each side. (I prefer 3)



Twisted wire mouthpieces like these depicted below should Never Ever be used on a horse.

Thin mouth pieces with more than 5 twists (the thinner the mouthpiece, the sharper this bit becomes)

Double Twisted mouthpieces (creates a scissor effect on the tounge)

 

I really like seeing peoples views of these bits
Thanks for posting, really interesting

VB

 

Disclaimer: I have not read any of the posts yet. The following is my own opinion, not a response to anything anyone has written in this thread.

No. I feel they are excessive bits. Only the most sour, hardmouthed horses, ridden for years by sloppy handed riders with "big" bits "need" something like a twisted wire bit. IME/IMO, 99.8% of horses that have them in their mouths do not need them. All of the reasons that "Trainers" who use them have given me (when I have asked) are not valid, IMO. You can get a horse light in the mouth and light on the front end with a smooth snaffle and the right kind of training, it just takes a few more minutes ;-). If you have a horse that won't come off the front end or bit, then there is something lacking in their training elsewhere, there is pain or discomfort in the horse somewhere, or the horse could be fighting his downhill conformation.

 

I don't use one with my mare, but they have their place. If a horse is a holy terror --bolts off with its rider and cannot be stopped, will NOT listen to rein cues at all, or does other dangerous stuff-- with no respect for the bit and it is completely impossible to ride in a smooth snaffle, use one. If a horse can't be ridden in a "nice" bit, it just can't. Nothing can change that: not love, not groundwork, not "going back to the basics". There IS something wrong with its schooling; that's what the experienced trainer is trying to fix. The only thing that will help certain horses is to have the bit respect "crudely and terribly" forced back into them. After a ride or two, it's all over and the horse, with a new respect for bits, can go back to a normal mouthpiece.

 

I agree, A Knack, The thin ones and double twists are really bad!
I only use and will ever use the thick, 3-5 twists

VB

 

i used one ONCE on a horse that was leaning so badly on the bit - so i stuck him on the longe with no side reins to see if he would still lean. no side reins = no mouth pressure other than what HE put on it and he leaned right into it. that told me he had some sort of damage from the track that he literally couldn't FEEL the bit.

once we figured that out we tried a few alternatives such as hacks and what not where he DID have feeling that we could still communicate with him and work with him since he obv had little to no mouth feeling at all so no matter what bit we used he didn't know what to do with it.

other than those very very very rare circumstances (in 30 years with horses that's the only time i've used one) i voted no because 99.999% of the time no, i wouldn't use one and if i would it is a one time few min situation to identify an issue then fix it. i'm a big believer in fixing a horse through less is more - less bit, less tack etc. where and whenever possible.

 

I have a couple questions (just because I'm curious)...

Do you guys feel the same way about curbs in general? They are inherently harsher than snaffles, but are used to fine-tune cues and teach the horse to work off a looser rein. If thick twisted snaffles were used the same way as curbs, would you feel the same way about them?

Do you have the same opinion about an English rider using one with constant contact as a Western rider using one with very little contact?

 

a curb bit is not imo harsher than a snaffle by any means. the mouthpiece is different than leverage (or lack thereof). a twisted wire is harsh on the mouth - period, whether on a curb or snaffle. a mullen mouth is easy on the mouth whether curb or snaffle. see where i'm going here?

ANY bit can be harsh in the wrong hands (so can a hack or a bitless).
and i disagree that a curb is inherently harsher than a snaffle and i disagree that a curb should be ever ridden with constant contact regardless of seat or discipline. even looking at upper dressage riders, double bridles, etc., the curb has minimal pressure and while you may not see slack in the reins, the contact is millimeters of pressure just like an upper trained reiner, etc., rather than the image/connotation of "constant contact" which implies ongoing pressure.

 

I don't think I was very clear...

When I said this - "Do you have the same opinion about an English rider using one with constant contact as a Western rider using one with very little contact?"

I was talking about twisted snaffles, not curbs : )

 

yes - bc twisted wire works on pain not on communication. if your horse needs something that strong, reconsider how you are riding/training imo.

 

I feel like using harsh bits doesn't fix whatever behavior your trying to correct.
I agree with CJ82Sky They make the horse listen through pain and don't actually teach the horse anything.

VanillaBean is what is the reason you use a bit like this?

 

I feel like using harsh bits doesn't fix whatever behavior your trying to correct.
I agree with CJ82Sky They make the horse listen through pain and don't actually teach the horse anything.

VanillaBean is what is the reason you use a bit like this?

Well, i have a few reasons. My mare is a leaner, and me and my trainer are trying to get her to stop leaning.

And [i know this is going to make people upset about "properly getting a headset"] to get her to bring her head down and tuck.

She has already started to get the idea, so we are alternating between the twisted shank and my coppermouth three piece.

Sheena is 17 and has a hard mouth so sometimes it takes a bit of a twist to get her attention. And i use almost no pressure on it, i am really light especially when using this bit. its the whole "you run into the bit, its gonna pinch" idea.

Thanks to everyone [so far] for keeping this thread friendly!

VB

 

Just so you know I wasn't trying to judge you or anyone, I was just curious. Everyone has different views on training horses, Bits and whatnot.

 

^
Yeah, thats fine!

VB

 

A waterford mouth is also good for leaners. There are so many joints that there is nothing structured for the horse to lean on. It makes it uncomfortable to lean without pain.

 

If a waterford makes it uncomfortable to lean without pain, why is that any better than a twisted wire?

 

Faye, what is " remouthing" ??
Posted via Mobile Device

 

Going to through a few things out there

Any bit in the hands of the wrong person can be negative. We all use a variety of training methods that suit both rider and horse. Every action you choose to make with regards to your horse will have a positive or negative consequence.

I personally use a twisted snaffle often on my pleasure horses. That being said, I have very light hands, it is not the type of bit for someone who uses their hands to much. True collection on a horse comes from the whole body, not just the head, so my focus is always on the legs!

 

I personally use a twisted snaffle often on my pleasure horses. That being said, I have very light hands, it is not the type of bit for someone who uses their hands to much. True collection on a horse comes from the whole body, not just the head, so my focus is always on the legs!

A twisted snaffle is different than a twisted wire.

This is a twisted wire:

This is a twisted snaffle:

The twisted snaffle is not considered as severe as a twisted wire. The more twists in a bit & the thinner the mouthpiece gets, the more severe it is, because it has the potential to have a sharper "bite" on the horse's mouth when the bit is activated.

 

whoops, typo!, sorry i use the twisted wire.

Someone mentioned the twisted wire being about pain and not communication? I do not agree with this statement, it depends on how it is used, like any bit.

Alot of people feel strongly about the twisted wire that is easy to tell. I would love to hear everyone debate

Bumper Bits, Gag Bits, and Bicycle Chains. You should see what judges are told to look out for at the shows

I have ridden a variety of horses, and I adjust accordingly to the needs of my horse. My last gelding was in a Myler Leverage bit as a 2 year/3 year old because he required the leverage.

 

My last gelding was in a Myler Leverage bit as a 2 year/3 year old because he required the leverage.

thats just sad, a 2 yr old shouldnt even be ridden yet, let alone have had his mouth ruined to the point he NEEDS leverage.

 

interesting.

 

actually that bottom bit is a slow twist eggbut.

BOTH bits are twisted snaffles because both mouthpieces are twisted and both bits work off direct pressure = snaffles.

there's also a corkscrew mouthpiece. depending on the horse the corkscrew can be more or less harsh than the slow twist.

the twisted wire is harsher than either of the above.

 

actually that bottom bit is a slow twist eggbut.

I've always heard the terms "slow-twist" & "twisted-snaffle" used interchangeably.