[jaydee]

Surely the best way to get over this is to move on and leave it behind you?

 

[savvystables]

For the most part I am done... Emotionally and spiritually I've worked through this.

When I've exhausted every avenue to seek justice - I'll be totally done. Right now I'm pursuing action through the BBB in Colorado. If I don't get justice through them, my next step will be the "small claims court" in Pagosa Springs, and I'll make a nice little vacation out of it. They have the nicest "hot springs" there

Also, I will be protesting at the Sacramento Horse Expo.

 

[natisha]

I understand your frustration but your knowledge of training is still there even without the PP name. People will go to you for your skill, not a PP permission slip.
Couldn't you just say you trained with PP but it got too expensive?

 

[jaydee]

You already feel like you've wasted time and money on PP so why waste any more?
There are other training courses surely with more credible trainers?
I see your frustration but you're not even going to make a dent in that big shiny PP Bandwagon.
Jump off it now and do something better with your life

 

[Chevaux]

Is there not an old saying that goes something like this: The best way to get even is to succeed at something else? So in your case, put your energies into succeeding as a horseperson and do not credit any of your success to the person troubling you -- doing this says better things of your character than of theirs.

 

[loosie]

^While bagging them out publicly says nothing much about them & everything about your character.

....I wonder what it does for your legal 'character' & credibility.

 

[4horses]

Good luck with the BBB. We changed our tv from cable to internet in January. The Cable company continued to charge us after we switched, even though we asked them to cancel the charges.

We asked the cable company for a refund. We have called multiple times. We reported them to the BBB. Nothing has been done, and we are yet to get our money back. Every time we call they "promise to send a refund check in the mail in the next week". Only the refund never arrives!

At this rate I am going to have to record our conversation and go to the local newspaper. :-x

 

[Patty Stiller]

This is not horsemanship. This is animal cruelty.

If you are an equine l behaviorist you should understand that if a human 'speaks' to a horse in HORSE language, the horse learns what the human wants faster, responds to requests faster and respects the human as the herd leader. So if the horse failed to move away immediately when gently asked and got a kick to the chest with the side of the human foot, that was just horse language. A language he was born with and understands.(unless he was imprinted which may be why he didn't move in the first place...don't even get me started) So If I ask a horse to move out of my way nicely and he does not respond, then I immediately ask him again more firmly and if he does not respond again he will get hit, punched, kicked or whatever it takes on my puny human part to make the point, just like a lead mare would do. THAT is "natural". Believe me a kick from a human is NOT going to harm the horse but next time the human asks gently that horse WILL remember the horse language lesson and yield the space.

 

[BigNickMontana]

In my opinion, Parelli's are doing nothing more than running a multi level marketing scheme, and quite frankly I think their training methods in some cases do more harm than good.

Breakout, do something new, start your own organization, take their business, do it better than they do, and do it right and make something good come of it.

 

[savvystables]

Done with Parelli

Thank you all for your comments... Actually, I'm grateful and overwhelmed with your support. I thought I'd be crucified.

I protested Friday and Saturday at the "Western States Horse Expo" in Sacramento. Pat Parelli was a presenter there. I had a sign which read " Parelli's Unfair to Instructors" and I wore a tank top with the same words printed on the front and back.

Again the response from people was 99.9% positive and encouraging! One man said "life is unfair."

When Pat and Dave Ellis would see me at the arena or their booth, they couldn't even make eye contact.

It was sad I had to protest, but on the other hand it was inspiring and satisfying.

 

[savvystables]

Done with Parelli

In my opinion, Parelli's are doing nothing more than running a multi level marketing scheme, and quite frankly I think their training methods in some cases do more harm than good.

Breakout, do something new, start your own organization, take their business, do it better than they do, and do it right and make something good come of it.

Hi, a lot of people came up to me and said Parelli wanted us to spend more money to advance...like a pyramid scheme. My lawyer thought this same thing. I couldnt see it, but it makes sense now.

 

[loosie]

So If I ask a horse to move out of my way nicely and he does not respond, then I immediately ask him again more firmly and if he does not respond again he will get hit, punched, kicked or whatever...

Usually only takes a warning, or one go past a warning(like eg of Parelli's kick) to convince a horse it's worth paying attention to bodylanguage. Just love agisting my mob with other people's horses... one in the recent new mob obviously doesn't get 'horse language'! First meeting he marches up to me, planning on just going through me because my horses were eating behind me. Was perplexed & checked himself when I responded by marching back at him with my ears back & arms flailing! But he didn't back off, just let me run into him & stood there worriedly while I rained a few blows(not enough to really hurt much or do damage, but usually more than enough to get a horse to move).

I've had to take a big stick in with me(for safety's sake, I have to get him to move out of my way when necessary) & he (eventually) moves off from that, but I've had to hit him a few times each visit with it! He just seems to be oblivious - after a few times I wondered what I was doing wrong... but he's like that with other horses too - not 'dominant', but he'll ignore their bodylanguage until he's actually charged at & kicked & bitten repeatedly! The other horses aren't bullies, it's just that he ignores them until they have to SHOUT at him & actually force him to move. Every time, it seems. Met some 'slow learners' but none quite like him. Eyesight & hearing seem fine. Learned helplessness, dumb dumb or... can you get 'autistic' horses??

 

[ducky123]

Again the response from people was 99.9% positive and encouraging! One man said "life is unfair."

I don't know how encouraging that comment is. To me "life is unfair" is just a more empathetic version of "call the wambulance."

 

[BigNickMontana]

Hi, a lot of people came up to me and said Parelli wanted us to spend more money to advance...like a pyramid scheme. My lawyer thought this same thing. I couldnt see it, but it makes sense now.

The worst part is this, yeah it is a pay to play scheme, but with things like the video running around of Pat taking the lead rope and shaking the dog snot out of it in a horses face terrorizing him, a lot of people see that like myself, and instantly the Parelli certification is absolutely worthless. In fact for me it means I wont let that person near my horse because I think that sort of thing is cruel.

Again that is just my opinion.

There are some really awesome natural horsemanship programs out there, myself I am a believer in the Ray Hunt/Buck Branaman school of thought.

I think its a better way and what matters most is not certification but reputation. You do good work with horses, the word will get out, the same if you don't.

 

[Luv equins]

Yup Parelli trainer abuse my horse. Done this Parelli. Also here are some fine examples https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gf7w_1ifus but if you by my carrot stick and stupid moving easy horse chin wiping mean unneed snap then your horse can do everything.

 

[Patty Stiller]

but with things like the video running around of Pat taking the lead rope and shaking the dog snot out of it in a horses face terrorizing him,

There are some really awesome natural horsemanship programs out there, myself I am a believer in the Ray Hunt/Buck Branaman school of thought.

Ummmmm..you think that "shaking the snot out of a rope" is inhumane? I am confused about your statement because then I cant understand why you would prefer the ways of the late Ray Hunt or Buck Brannaman. They too will harshly discipline a horse IF NEEDED and will use physical contact if necessary.
So you may be a little misinformed about their methods or have never actually been to a three day clinic in person, as I have several times (as well as Dennis Reis ,also of the same" camp" and I love those methods, BTW).

I had NO PROBLEM with Buck Brannaman backing my 2 year old colt all the way across the arena while WHACKING him across the chest with the end of the training rope. My colt to my surprize, had a serious hole in his manners that I had missed . Buck was asking him to do something and the colt reared and struck at Buck. I was glad to see it fixed. And I would have done the same thing. Buck didn't leave welts.. but I probably would have.

As well those guys MAY rope a horse around its neck in the round pen to get control if a horse is either trying to jump out or panicking and wont stop running. Do you think yanking a horse around to face up on a neck rope is also inhumane?
So I don't quite get it, why do you think a hard rope shaking is more inhumane that whacking a horse?

 

[Roman]

Yup Parelli trainer abuse my horse. Done this Parelli. Also here are some fine examples https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBMuVVMXNUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gf7w_1ifus but if you by my carrot stick and stupid moving easy horse chin wiping mean unneed snap then your horse can do everything.

I believe every trainer has some good. The Parelli's seem to work for a lot of people, not others however.

Second, the video is blurry so you can't see Pat very well, or even know it is him.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[savvystables]

Done with Parelli

I don't know how encouraging that comment is. To me "life is unfair" is just a more empathetic version of "call the wambulance."

I meant his comment was the .1% negative

 

[loosie]

Bignick, I was also surprised to see you mention Ray Hunt & Buck, after having such a problem with Parelli for that sort of treatment. Patty beat me to what I would have said on that. They're great horsemen & teachers, but that doesn't mean they're soft. I think Ray was one of Parelli's main mentors as a matter of fact.(I mean, more so than he was one of many, many good american trainer's mentors:wink.

Luv equine, the first vid link was removed by the time I saw your post, but... (thanks for mentioning it was Voldemort Roman...) Afraid I don't give much credence to anyone who gives time to that... ranty person.

I don't quite follow your 'chin wiping' sentence, but you seem to be saying that Parelli says you need his particular tools & they make you into a good horseman?? That is FAR from the case of what HE says actually, but it seems, so many people... drink the coolaid & take it into their own heads that is the case so they need the tools & get stroppy when it doesn't all work. No accounting for the behaviour of star struck people, but it doesn't mean the star's necessarily the one at fault.

A long time ago, I attended a few Parelli 'clinics', with my home made rope halter, lead, cut down lunge whip with a loop on the end... the instructors weren't the least... snobby about that, but some of the other participants & watchers were horrified by my lack of 'the real deal'.

There is a lot about Parelli I have issues with. But a rational discussion about pros & cons & principles is one thing. I don't personally think irrational, narky comments(unless they're about his dressage floosy:twisted:) are appropriate, fair or reasonable though.

 

[tinyliny]

Yup Parelli trainer abuse my horse. Done this Parelli. Also here are some fine examples https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gf7w_1ifus but if you by my carrot stick and stupid moving easy horse chin wiping mean unneed snap then your horse can do everything.

this thread is not about whether or not PP abused or didnt' abuse. it's about a person who feels SHE was abused in her business interactions with the Parelli group.